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Some of you may aware of the newest released feature by deviantART- that very long awaited widget/module/space for commission on your personal page.

Here is my thought about it, no, actually a serious concern where I posted there- please read it first: comments.deviantart.com/1/3477…


To add more: in my opinion I am quite disappointed with that new commission module which have quite childlish feeling (devART, IMHO, represents art as entertaiment which is pushing far away from art as a serious profession in our real world /where in effect many people don't take us, full time working artists seriously etc./ besides of Portfolio release where they did a good job. But when money is involved...) and that's pretty much fast-food commission for quick take and out (points, quick modul and price limit).
That addition of the price limit (which is very low) which may suggest to many young people about fixed general idea of price with art into mentality (art has SUBJECTIVE price, never fixed- and that's a very important point) and may bring in consequences the idea of art with low value.
I'm person with strong awarness about art's value and I can treat that module as fast-to-do-small-commissions (such like very small icon commissions) and treat it as fast-food thing to take out but many people aren't. They will think that professional commissions are leaded by like that (since it's called COMMISSIONS. Hey how commissions look like? DevArt shows THIS, is commissions. You charge art no more than 50 bucks and do with points), omgpoints and art should cost no more than 50$ /like a big painting with full background/.
Bear in mind, a limit set, 50$ may get stuck in many young, aspiring artists and not only as a fixed price limit of value of art in their subconsciousness!!

for example. if you all guys weren't living with art on internet but lived and explored art in real life, you'd probably learn a lot (I'm not talking about old masters but common artists from our times!) that art range value is counted in hundred dollars. As a young teenage that price will shock you but very fastly, being raised seeing with your eyes a number and two zeros or more will be coded in your subcosciousness that art has real value- and prices would be a common thing. But once we subconsciously see art with very low numbers (and devART is GRAND ART SITE!) and seeing a LIMIT (LIMIT= existence of FIXED price) may bring destructive consequences for many starting out and even professional freelance artists.


I have, as well many people, expected to have a professional commission widget.
When money, earnings and business what can make money is involved- should be treated professionaly and has to be taken seriously - not as take-out-fast-food version with stupid points as price and price limit /and devART doesn't deserve to name it "commissions" where art is charged with points and HAVE fixed price limit, it should be named mini-commissions. Think about how it will influence to subconsciousness to many learning artists here/.
Personally I don't have much problem with 20% profit for DA /thats different discussion/, IF commission module could be professional, with real tools, flexiblity for working artists (amateur/hobby-ist still can use it but they will learn a lot better about art business having real tools to work with than childlish ones) where artists decide since it's an open business, granted by devART team, that would be a really great thing and I think maybe devARt would deserve their profit for granting something like this- and especially idea of browsing artists is really great. But what now dA has released is a thing what can potentially ruin the market of art.


I'd really love to hear your thoughts and opinions, maybe there is something that I don't know- but that's for the best interest for us all, artists and career as an artist. Let's discuss friendly about it.


Here is bunch of links (important lectures) about the value of art in case if anyone isn't aware:

eskiworks.tumblr.com/post/2459…
exileden.deviantart.com/journa…
goldenwolf.deviantart.com/jour…
eskiworks.tumblr.com/post/3530…

[I believe there are much more but atm I can't dig up them]
Add a Comment:
 
:iconnicarox2006:
NicaRox2006 Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I actually like the widget :3 I think it's nifty. It doesn't lessen my view on an artist's professionalism or work ethic. At all.
My serious concern is the fact that they take 20 percent off :grump:
Reply
:iconsevmd:
SEVMD Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Probably the issue everyone has is the number ._. the minute it goes over like.. 10 :point: they think its too expensive... Mine is pretty cheap sad to say but I'm still collecting points if possible and the total I have actually keeps me working on. Sometimes my watchers would commission me and thats nice.

yes I know a lot of people have issues with the point system but there won't be such thing as commissions to the majority of they don't have paypal. I want a paypal soon but I'm too young to get it soon, so I resort to point commission which actually I enjoy having. I don't like doing request even though both commission and request is drawing something that is new. Request is a bit like " Oh its free stuff"*throws in what they want and demand for it* I mean thats how I see whenever it comes to my taking request...
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:iconcaledoncat:
CaledonCat Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah you're denfetly right with everything you say :nod: well i am one of this 15 year old hobby artists chargginh their best piece for 80 points although i wokr mamy hours on them and put a lot of thought into them
the problem is liek you already said that everyone thinks it is very much
i am not very popular yet and no one would pay much for my art :( so i sell it for a few points instead of getting nothing
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:iconduplesnowflake:
DupleSnowflake Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Student General Artist
You're setting yourself up for future struggles and failure. I used to do requests, trades, and point commissions. Now none of my watchers want my work for money. My advice is to stop that point business now.
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:iconcaledoncat:
CaledonCat Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
What do you mean? That widget or Poont Commissions in genereal?
I usually doN#t do trades/requests they are just if I want to draw soethign but don't want to have the responsibility of making it perfect ^^
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:iconduplesnowflake:
DupleSnowflake Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Student General Artist
I mean point commissions in general. And either way, they're a bad idea if you're serious about art.
Reply
:iconcaledoncat:
CaledonCat Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Well I'm still quite young and I have no acces to a paypal account so I can't really earn money.I already got send some money for commissions with the mail but those were all from germany because than it would be too expesnive for sending just 4-8 € from america or england
though you are right!!! I really agree with you.I just don't see another possibility for me :(
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:iconduplesnowflake:
DupleSnowflake Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Student General Artist
What I'm saying is that if you're too young to have access to real money and don't need a secondary source of income, the best thing you can do is to try your hand at contests. Trust me. The point community does not respect you in the same professional way commissioners do. Unless you want to make a second portfolio account, it would be better to just enjoy doing what you like and competing for small prizes rather than ripping yourself off.
Reply
:iconcaledoncat:
CaledonCat Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah your really right :nod: I am already reducing how many commissions I do but I need some points for my PM ^^
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:iconsheorun:
sheorun Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Student General Artist
I also noticed the problem with points. They would be acceptable if they were a represent of the real value behind them but not like this. Nobody buys a commission if you charge 1000 points or even more although it is almost nothing considering the real value standing behind it. This commission widget is just helping to establish things like they are since you can not charge in something else. I don't consider the idea behind points as that bad but the value they have is just horrible. Good I'm not alone with this feeling!
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:iconjaquina:
Jaquina Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I totally agree with you!
I'm not a good artist (or, at least not totally good),
but I dont want to sell my pics (if I would sell them) for 2-3$.. I had invest WORK in my pics, I really like them when I upload them here (exept sketches or just practise stuff)!!
I totallly understand your point of view!
Reply
:iconsouthrobin:
Southrobin Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013
^ This journal.
I think if you or like that other person who made that comic on deviantart llama badges for real money / points = deviantart might actually take us seriously and fix some of this :C
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:icontonyjeffers:
TonyJeffers Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Student
Yeah commissions are as much for the artist as they are for the person recieving it. If you spend alot of time working on something you have the power to charge as you feel you are worth there definatley shouldn't be a middle man pricing your work below your effort. However New artist might gravitate to this however just to get their name out their.
Reply
:iconizz-noxfox:
Izz-noxfox Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013  Professional General Artist
I hadn't considered it but I very much agree with you on the fast-food/fast-art argument. It's already hard to be a professional artist, to set prices, stand for them in way to affirm that what you do has a certain level of quality, is worth a certain amount of money...
Nowadays everything is all click and get, discount prices, etc. But selling your art is not like selling fruits and vegetables on the market place. Art is not a casual product.

When I think of all the pain I have to find some work to do, when I see me working unpaid in hope to get a job, when I see Europe that suffering from the financial crisis... This widget disappoints me a lot. I feel bitter. It's like I'm worth nothing and it shows me the way to the edge of despair.
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:icondarkdragonwolf:
darkdragonwolf Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
So I read through all of your comments etc and have to agree with you.
It looks more like some "taking away the real world of money"-thing then some kind of help. And since I got a couple of years experience with the internet I know it's all too easy to lose reality withing it.
So for the younger members it's quite "dangerous" since they have their problems parting internet and reality.

Hope that makes any sense. Got quite a lack of english language ><
Reply
:iconvalkeus:
Valkeus Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thank you for pointing this out! People should charge what they feel their time is worth, and buyers will pay what they are willing to pay.
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:iconprinceofpride:
PrinceofPride Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm starting to agree with you that the points system is beginning to lower the value of art on here. It's getting to the point where people don't even want to pay real money for art, they just want to use points and I've seen some people get mad when they have to pay real money for art.

The first time I realized just how bad the prices where on DA was when I started doing commissions outside of the internet as well, and I was shocked at the prices they were offering. People are offering $100 for the type of stuff I'd sell on DA for maybe like $10 each. When one of my art teachers told me how much he'd pay for one of my pieces I gave him a crazy look because I wasn't expecting it.

Now whenever I see an artist on DA offer their art for reasonable prices they get tons of 13-year-olds yelling at them for their art being too expensive and saying things like "I can get the same quality by only paying $10!" without even realizing that those artists who are selling their art for $10 to $20 are selling themselves short. I've seen people on FA raise their art to some crazy high prices, whereas on DA it's intimidating to even go above even $25 for a full painting.
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:iconsouthrobin:
Southrobin Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013
^ THIS COMMENT.
Reply
:iconsnazzie-designz:
snazzie-designz Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   General Artist
I agree with all of the comments so far, but one thing that wasn't raised is the difficulty of knowing what to charge. I am new to selling art. I started doing pyrographs a few months ago as gifts for family, and friends, but then it proved quite popular, and I've been asked to do several commissions since, but I find it difficult to know what to charge people. On the one hand, if I were to charge the legal minimum hourly rate for a plaque you would be talking $300-$400 per piece, and the ordinary every day person is struggling to make ends meet at the moment, and just can't afford that. Plus having sold them for a reduced price for one person, then I feel that anyone in that particular group of acquaintances would need to be charged around the same price to avoid conflict. So what would you charge for a pyrographed plaque ([link]) for example. I'd really love to know peoples opinion.
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:iconexileden:
Exileden Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
What and how to price your art value, is absolutely subjective theme. It's really absolutely up to you. I cannot make any even opinions how much you should charge.

Just ask yourself how much your art is worth objectively: materials, your time, how long you work on pieces, your demand, your art experience, even yes your art EDUCATION and where you want to go with art as career. If you want to make onto living, you need to price it in way that you can make for living at least that profit to cover your optimal regular income. And how much time takes you, how many plates you can produce to have certain income and thus, price will be dependent.

Art isn't easy career to make it for living or at least for half-living. Unfortunately mostly a great skill OR marketing of your art can help you out mostly. Sometimes self promoting and art marketing is the most important to be noticed (you have to be noticed to be valued with your art service and prices, even if your prices are in thousands).

If you can't sell your stuff with your proposed minimal wage, it's better to drop it. Do art with joy and get noticed first, learn more, improve then get back to commissions with minimal wage back.

Many inexperienxed people/hobby artists usually want to do commissions NOW. If they cant sell their art with minimal wage (more likely they will not), they start doing undervaluing method where tend to sell art for every dollar/below worth of their time and material worth- which is a road where they would have extremely hard time to bounce off from undervaluing their art.

Here are few things to read:

[link]
[link]
Reply
:iconsnazzie-designz:
snazzie-designz Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   General Artist
Thanks for taking time to reply, and thanks for the great advice.

The minimum wage I discussed is the actual legal minimum wage over here, not something that I proposed by the way.

I am charging far less than that at the moment, mainly because it is for family and friends. My material costs are covered, plus a small amount more, but I am not charging anywhere near the legal minimum hourly rate for my time. (I also think that a lack of confidence is a contributing factor, but also that even $200 sounds quite expensive to me, from a buyers perspective.)

I haven't actually sought any commissions yet, but through word-of-mouth I have had several commissions. At the moment it is all from family and friends, but I will have to think about pricing for future requests if I want to make a living out of it.

I think that alot of artists undervalue work when they're starting off to gain recognition, and build up a name for themselves, and I think that that is why many people on DA are happy to sell their stuff for points, or very small amounts, but mainly I think that most artists undervalue their work because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and what one person thinks is a masterpiece, another will think was drawn by a 4-year old, therefore you're trying to pick a value based on an average opinion, and it is very difficult to pick that price.
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:icontobproject:
TOBproject Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
What you're saying makes absolute sense.

Being honest, I don't take deviantART seriously; I just publish here fan-art, things that I do to pass the time, but my original art (mostly literature, which is not very appreciated here, by the way) I keep to myself. I am still young and studying, and for the moment I have a small job that keeps me going, so I haven't really had to look for places where to sell my art yet. That's why I hadn't really considered what you're saying here; but subconsciously I know I wouldn't have chosen deviantART anyway.

Even so... the staff could, and should, try to give deviantART more 'depths', as in more adult alternatives and environments for professional artists. The shame is that nowadays such big pages in the net have a tendency to give more importance to new flashy widgets than the truly important things, such as the inner workings of the system, or the actual content.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, they were very enlightening! I hope more people read this.
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:iconmrsvolv:
MrsVolv Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional General Artist
Zgadzams się całkowicie, plus uważam że 20% to mimo wszystko zdecydowanie za dużo(Patrząc na to, że Paypal jeszcze Ci zabierze i podatek powinno się zapłacić od zarobku, zostajesz z niczym, a to TY się narobisz)


To jest smutne jak ceny są zaniżane przez osoby prywatne, a jeszcze bardziej gdy przez duże instytucje takie jak Deviantart...
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:iconkqeina:
Kqeina Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
It's frustrating how dA keeps insiting with the point system. Too many younger deviants don't know the real value of them and by encouraging the usage, dA is exploiting these members. They need to take this website a little more seriously and stop making ridiculous updates. This website is designed for those aged 13+, so show it. Stop trying to lure the younger ones in with these stupid points or llamas.
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:iconexileden:
Exileden Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
I will say this. Sadly a lot of artists lear about art and get into art world, even career through internet now and especially DA- that's why I'm trying to tell everyone how fucking important influence DA has. Points, is going to teach art's value and world which is a not good idea.
I'll say that I've learned GETTING into art market, business and value THROUGH deviantART. Yes. I did and I fucking how how it has grand impact on people and then, young generation of artists (which today is though internet and DA) has impact to the value of art and art market in general.

But I am very lucky that I've learned that business and it's value in better times of devART where points did not exist.

And I love how you said, DA is luring people into meaningless values. I swear, I'll see CEO and will have a serious discussion with him and have Tanathe to pee on their coffee machine (so far I have solid arguments and no solid points against my observation but I'll be doing my best research to have solid knowledge, points and argument than "on surface").
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:iconahkward:
Ahkward Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional General Artist
To actually hear about Tanathe doing that would make my year and it is only January.

I do not even use points because they are so undermining.
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:iconlinmirianjoyrex:
LinmirianJoyrex Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Student General Artist
:iconslowclapplz:
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:iconlantairvlea:
lantairvlea Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I think DA responded to how people have been using points. When people are selling art for 10-50 points a $50 value limit makes sense.

I won't be using it. Power to those who figure out a way to use it to their benefit, but I agree it's pretty much useless for full-time artists.
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:iconaraless:
Araless Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
I couldn't agree more...
In the past I made all the mistakes every beginner artist is doing. Selling my art for a few bucks although I'm stone-broke. I still need to find a fulltime job but I am not getting one. It's so frustrating...
And I'm very unknown on dA either. I thought I would get more costumers by selling my art for low but this was not the case. There even was a friendly person who told me that my art is way to cheap and I really should raise the prize. I sold my last full colored illustration for 60 bucks and I worked a whole week on it...
I wish I could have some help on how to run business with art but there's nobody I could ask.
It would be great if I could find at least a part-time job and do REAL commissions as extra. With real prizes of course...
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:iconcavyspirit:
CavySpirit Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I agree with you. I have not liked the commission widget from the start. I made a suggestion for one a long time ago and it was just a way to neatly feature the art and prices as well as policy, info, etc.. Not for customers to type in what they want and submit it for a "fast-food" style of commission as you called it(nice comparison, btw).

And based on what I've observed over the years, DA has been kind.. dropping as a good art site. It's the most popular, most influencial, and biggest, but it's dropping in quality when it comes to supporting the arts. Mostly because DA is showing off more fancy features and offering up more fancy items for people to buy rather than to help their art or help them produce more art. They need more contests, they need to get rid of points, and they need to start supporting the professional and beginning artists who really want to make something of their passion.

I am one of those people who've lowered their prices by a lot because DA has so many artists and getting commissions at a fair(usually higher) price is almost impossible unless you're THE BEST. I have not done point commissions in a while because.. I just don't like points :c They're fun and all and can encourage people to enter your contest if you host one, but when it comes to commissions they do push the value of art down. It's so weird how people see 100 points as a lot when it's only a little over $1. I don't worry about it too much because I don't use points. But still.

Even though I'm not going into art as a professional career, it's still one of my biggest passions and I've learned over the years there is not "fair" or "good" price for art. It all depends on different factors that the artist themselves must decide with the help of understanding the value of art. DA should be there to help artists start their journey as a successful artist, not use their talents to get extra money for the site.

The 20% royalty is completely unfair and the commission widget is useless. They just need to get rid of it.

You make a lot of good points. I will feature your journal in one of mine, to hopefully spread the word a bit more.
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:iconjeenalight:
JeenaLight Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
This is why I don't do commissions except in person, and with cash too!

Also, points are evil. It is the reason I do not offer commissions! Writing is hard, even at an amateur level, and I would never get paid properly for it!
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:iconashenee:
Ashenee Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I personally like this. I put a lot of effort into my artwork but I don't get many commissions cause I'm just not that popular. I hope to be. I wish I could go full time with art but sadly I can't. I do understand that this sort of brings down the value of art but for people who can't seem to get commissions even when they're $1 it's sort of frustrating. Honestly commissions get me to work harder on my art before doing my own stuff or gifts or whatnot. I have honestly gotten at least 10 times better than I USED to be and even improving. I definitely know the amount that points are worth compared to money. It's very low and charging 20 :points: for a tribal piece sucks majorly, but a lot of my watchers are people under 18 who aren't usually allowed to have pay pals yet. For artists like me I think this widget is easy, convenient and all around good. Except the 20 percent thing which sort of sucks but I understand that DA needs to make money. I dunno I understand everyone's concern and I'm sure someone will flame me for this but I recognize that Da is trying to reach all it's deviants and to the ones who want commissions otherwise can still continue what they're doing. As for the decline in art content I feel that it will continue no matter what. New deviants are coming on DA everyday. There are also wonderful artists on here and they're still inspirational as ever. I dunno. Guess I am conflicted but I understand what you're saying :>
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:iconsukoshichu:
sukoshichu Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Student Artist
it upsets me that the mods in that thread are all POINTS MONEY OMG
points are not money
yes people pay money for points
but points are not money.

my problem with devart is this: they're taking a 20% commish fee off. that would be fine, but then, why? i don't understand. i don't understand why they need to take money just because they put you on a long, long list of commissioners. and after paypal fees, you're not getting shit. and the dev mods are trying to insist da needs that money, but i'm like, no. there's no fucking way with how many premium members there are, and how many ads are EVERYWHERE.
no fucking WAY.

i would understand if this fee was for base members only, but for premiums too? that makes NO SENSE to me. it is greedy.

it's still hard for me to understand that one piece i did, of a graphite owl portrait, is worth about $1200 if it's converted into minimum wage $ * hours spent. that astounds me. while i know no one would buy it off me, it's still shocking that people [who are waaaaaay better than me] are being undercut so drastically.while i think my work is worth $10 for a bust, i couldn't imagine someone who is of your caliber getting that much, or even of an artist like =Yamio or *oceanchan, it's upseting.
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:iconblack-wren:
Black-Wren Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013
You make some very valuable points in this. There shouldn't be a forced limit when they are selling this site as a place for professionals as well as a place for hobbyist who may or may not grow to be professionals. It shouldn't be by points either. Is it possible to translate points to money afterwards? Is DeviantArt actually going to do that? I don't know. It seems the old way that many artists are using with Paypal and posting on their journals is still the better way. Art is subjective, the price should be as well.
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:iconsouthrobin:
Southrobin Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013
I agree with the no forced limit thing :C
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:iconaraaska:
Araaska Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Writer
The widget does show how X points is equivalent to X amount of currency when you type it in. They do also allow for points to be exchanged for actual cash. Solely into Paypal if I recall correctly, but they may allow for other methods.
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:iconblack-wren:
Black-Wren Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013
Thank you!
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:iconnanabuns:
Nanabuns Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I agree with everything you've said however I also agree with =Ahkward . The fact of the matter is that my skill level is not up to par with people who charge 20 to 30 dollars for a sketch. Especially since people aren't willing to pay those prices unless its from a popular artist. For now at least ,I'm willing to take what I can get.
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:iconenaxn:
Enaxn Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I feel like the price cut-off and the 20% transaction fee isn't enough pay off for a cute lil box that has snazzy clicky buttons <__<. Not to mention that it removes the human interaction part of the commission and that's like my favorite part!

I mean, I guess for, like, teenaged hobbyists who are just looking to make a few bucks it's okay. But if you're serious about art or trying to make actual money, the cut off is way too low! I dunno. It seems like a disaster right out of the gate. I really don't think I'll be using it ahaha.
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:icontoxic-muffins-studio:
Toxic-Muffins-Studio Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
When you start putting limits on what people can charge and cant charge for things they sell, then that's wrong. If someone who's inexperienced or does not have a good audience for what they are drawing, prices their art low, they are choosing to do that. Telling them to price it higher just so you and other high priced artists are not under-cutted on value, in my eyes is just a frantic way of trying to keep the value high for your own selfish desires. There's something I learned in the business world a long time ago. An item (including art services) is only worth what the person buying is willing to pay. If someone does not find it worth the money then they wont pay for it. So instead of trying to attack people who sell at a lower price, focus on trying to make your art priceless.
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:iconissuldra:
issuldra Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
*facepalm* Really? dA took the idea and ran in the stupid direction.

You've made great points, and honestly, I'm getting more-and-more disappointed in dA. If I didn't draw so much fanart, I'd probably end up going to Weasyl.
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:iconligos-dedalius-kris:
Ligos-Dedalius-Kris Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Student General Artist
I had a terrible feeling the moment they released that widget that it was a bad idea. I really didn't even want to look into it, because I knew there was something in there that would be a catch. And ouch, it was a doozy!
But I'm afraid it may already be too late for the internet artwork market. At least, on DeviantArt.

I'm not even certain what to price myself at, and I've been watching grander artists than I for a while now, listening to journal after journal on commission work. It's not a good feeling.
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:iconwolvenbird:
WolvenBird Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I definitely agree with you. I find it a sad thing that a huge art site, out of all things, would be so ignorant to the plea of starving artists.
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:iconaraaska:
Araaska Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Writer
Recently I paid 25 CAN for a simple head sketch to give to a tattoo artist as reference for the character and expression. Numerous people would say that is beyond expensive, but in truth the artist I commissioned is completely undervaluing their work. Her skill level and sense of depth, proportion and anatomy far surpasses that of even the wonderful :devGoldenwolf; yet she chooses to charge only 5 CAN/USD for a full body sketch on an 800x1200 canvas. Obviously I bumped up the amount I paid her for obvious reasons and tried to tell her that charging more wouldn't scare people away, especially since she is part of the furry community and primarily targets that audience. But because of the trend on deviantART and other websites out there, she's terrified that going any higher will make people from different corners of the internet think she is greedy. Someone even said she was being 'mean' by refusing to drop her pricing further. Their reason for the latter was because it was 'digital art and worth less than traditional work'. While I personally value the latter higher than the former that does not mean I will turn my nose up at someone who charges more for one over the other.

I can barely be considered a visual artist as I mainly do side views and busts. My skill lies in the realm of literature and novels. But even though I do these poorly rendered sketches and 3D mods on SecondLife, I know what the value of true work is and just how much time and energy goes into the whole ordeal. Perhaps participating in doing the work myself and owning numerous books from the art classes my mother took in college aids with knowing what the real value of work is. Yet even if I did not have that under my belt I would still understand that visual art is a serious profession and should be charged equally in comparison to a 'normal job', as someone I know would state it.

The trend deviantART has begun to set is disgusting and degrading to those who make a living from it. In this day and age it seems like the only people who can truly value the skill and time that goes into art are the various video game companies out there. Then you have those who want them on the team solely to create a mascot or do web design for a side commission undervaluing the work greatly. And more often than not they only have them on for that ONE thing as opposed to being a consist and paid employee.

It seems like the only way to find people who are willing to pay what the art is actually worth on deviantART is to have an artist that vastly surpasses everyone else in the field they happen to be the most skilled in and extremely well known for. And even THEN people are iffy about paying the 'exorbitant prices' which is utterly ridiculous...

:iconlesighplz:
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:iconexileden:
Exileden Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
As I said, main problem with humanity, especially young people is that they are very scared with that what OTHERS will think about them. Today, in general people rely too much what others will think about them and they worry with that too much. It's like they create themselved based on other people's opinions and they have hided their true own self hidden away very deeply. Everyone is now scared to do what truly they want and reach their goals because of being scared of what others will think about them.

They fear of being not accepted by society so they do everything to please society.

In general that psychological behaviour is one of most common problems and reasons of low-self esteem. If they let other people to influence them, then they have no power on their life, happiness and dreams. People with emotional poison is a person who wants to control other people, manipulate and use negative pressure as well is one who is controlled by society's words and thoughts.


The biggest problem is that artists are scared. Scared because of opinions and pressure. They will do what society will tell them even if that's wrong thing, not what they want to do or feel what is fair. They let on their own decision to people to influence them and that's why.

Then society know that have a manipulative power to attack artists and have a gain, lowered prices because artist gives up and lowers due to their fear. That;s how our cycle works here. Introducing that commission module and dangerous price limit may create more societies to attack poor, unaware, low esteem, amazing artists etc. etc.

Sorry I've typed it very fastly as response of your upper part of comment. I have run to work now. But I'm just stating how psychologicaly it works with artists, that artists are also "guilty" with that situation since they let society to control them.
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:iconsktaf:
SKTAF Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
20%?? I didn't know that they were receiving any of the commission? Or is this your opinion for a PROFESSIONAL commission widget??

I'm not stupid, my third Real Life commission was a wall mural that i under sold myself at $375 (though i discounted for family). My 4th commission was a t-shirt for $500.00. I'm a college student but i understand copyright and my hours spent making stuff. Unfortunately i was VERY disappointed with the shirt i received. I made the effort to explain that the shirts needed to be screen printed not just flat print. The commission did screen printing but the shirts came out HORRIBLE even though i gave 4 diff file types to them with a white layer to prevent fudged up colors. The print went from blue to purple. the shadows practically disappeared, and the commissioner said blue shirts but i received black :/ While i got my $500.00 i was not satisfied with myself or for my client.

I started my 5th semester/2nd year of art school today. My professor explained to us about sequential art. Art should NEVER be under sold. Prices should ALWAYS be over priced and then bargained down the a reasonable goal price. He explained that storyboarding can range from $80 to a $100 a FRAME!!! SO imagine storyboarding for a 30 second commercial and only doing 30 frames. That's about $2700 at $90 per frame. Storyboarding is to be quick and precise and clean. but QUICK. Imagine spending 20 hours on a painting and only getting $300 for the original. ALERT ALERT. *headdesk*

I used to complain about the prices of commissions, but I've realized now the value of work and what I want to be paid for the hours i spend making some other person's vision come to life. So i just weep (on the inside ha) at those who are getting maybe a 100 points for commission that could be triple at least, and for youngsters who have no idea what the value is for their work because a site like Deviantart makes it so easy to 'network' with a bunch of broke people who can only afford points that have no real life value. Most people who benefit from Deviantart are usually already established in Real life. Very seldom does someone kick off on deviantart and make lots of money.
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:iconaraaska:
Araaska Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Writer
The widget will take out 20% from all of the commissions you receive no matter what you may have set your price to. Those who actually read the beta journal entry (as opposed to skimmed it or just went straight to commenting) said they should either lower it to 5%, 10% at the MOST, or completely remove deviantART from receiving any cash through it. Surprise, surprise, they didn't listen to anyone even with how almost the entire user base spoke out against it.
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:iconsktaf:
SKTAF Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Well yeah. Deviant art could never stop commission sales. That's SO easy to skip around the 20%. Simply don't use the widget? Like many artists have for the last 10 years :D

It's quite stupid. Points is a system all on it's own. You have a custom box. So do the math = they get nothing. Ontop of that, many users want real $$ and will get it by paypal.

I read the commission article, but only the second one that came out as i deleted the first without realizing. I never saw anything about a %20 commission.
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:iconaraaska:
Araaska Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Writer
The primary concern with the commissions widget is the psychological impression it gives with the whole points system as well as their take. Since so many people have chosen to use it instead of going the (obvious) route that you mentioned, numerous artists worry about the impact it will have; doubly so since you can exchange the points for USD/CAN/EUR/etc.

As for the latest article, it does not say it directly like it did on the beta form, but it is here: Artists can track their Commission transactions and generate real profit through My Earnings, garnering 80% royalty on each transaction. Earnings can then be withdrawn as a check, via PayPal, or converted to deviantART Points.
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:iconsktaf:
SKTAF Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
hmmm yes. Well, at least some artist's are not falling for it :XD:

Though, if much of the youth actually pursues art, hopefully they will go to a university or college that will have better means of informing them and explaining to them the value of work. I checked the widget out thinking i might use it but instantly said no when i did see the limit (this was before i read the article). I'd be charging $70 for most cases and that's still cheap.

neverthless, thank you for explaining something i had missed. it puts the thing into perspective.
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